It's just. An odd concept. If everything else has free access, then. I don't know, it just feels. Restricting. Like who has that right, yeah? To decide my allotment for me. I've got an unlimited supply of water but the minute I want to get trashed, there's a problem.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to criticize. It just feels a little like. Big Brother is watching. No wonder people use them to gamble.
[Maybe the future isn't all that it sounds after all.]
That's an interesting leap to make, [ Jim says mildly.
Fascinating, to borrow a word. Did old Earth humans really do things like refuse state-sanctioned medical care over similarly imaginary reasons? Who prioritizes getting drunk over housing, food, education, healthcare..? Culture is fuckin wild, man.
(It's so easy to get trashed just on your own credits. Jim knows way, way too well. He also knows well how easy it is to slip the system and become an alcoholic and beat the shit out of your stepkids or nephews with regularity.) ]
[Wow Jim, he's not prioritizing getting drunk over anything! But you've not explained this very well so as far as he knows you're getting what, one glass a chip? Especially when there's no reason to ration it anymore other than what "for the greater good"? Who controls where people live if there's no rent for that matter? And how did they get in such a position to have such power over other people's lives? He just has so many questions.]
Listen, I. Mentioned that I worked in defense, yeah? I know first hand how corrupt different branches of the government can become when they've got that much deciding power, that's all I mean. Maybe people are different in the future, but. I wouldn't think we've changed that much.
[ tbf he did say 'it's not perfect' and 'it's not strict'-- mostly, though, these are blind-spot differences in human culture that they're both missing, given the enormous shift in Jim's world. ]
Well. [ Hmmm. ]
The thing is, humanity was nearly extinct. Nuclear holocaust, the post-atomic horror. You talk about things that are a given about human nature, but humans had to start over. Our understanding of fundamental elements here are probably pretty different.
[Whoa those are... Some pretty bleak things to look forward to, if the future is the same in all realities. The idea of having to rebuild from there is daunting, not to mention...]
I. Shit, Jim. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. You know, imply anything. Or turn the conversation this way, for that matter.
I'm just trying to understand. Learn. I'm a researcher, I guess you could say digging is just something that I do.
[Does this small attempt at humor lighten the mood at all? Or redeem him for any judgments that might have been made during this conversation at all? God, he hopes so.]
It's all right. I just don't see humanity the same way most people here do, I've learned.
[ Which is weird, and isolating. Jim's unique in that he's seen the worst his humanity has to offer, in the form of Starfleet corruption, but it was so shocking because it's so unlikely. He could have easily become bitter about it but he decided-- fuck you, he's going to work harder, drag more people into the light and out of that.
(Still, it's funny what gets a rise out of people. Booze, of all things.) ]
We're capable of a lot in general. Good and bad in equal measure. But if there's something I've learned myself it's that it's never that black and white.
Take this situation we're up against, for instance. The easiest way to see that the least amount of people are hurt is to take it down as fast as possible. But the dragon is technically an innocent in this as well, for all the damage it will be causing. That's why I had to make the post that I did, to try and help people understand. I'm not saying that it's wrong to want to save it. I'm just saying that it's not realistic. We don't have the time or the resources to find the answers, the cure, the ritual, or however else we might be able to stop it.
Believe me, I've looked.
[And boy is he tired. There's only so much individuals can do before running themselves into the ground here though, Jim. They're basically a guerrilla force here, up against what seems more and more like impossible odds.]
Are you working with the people who were posting about fighting it? [ Because that seems sensible. ] My impression is there's a real effort to hustle, down there, between talking to the city leaders, working on battle stagings, and sending people into Khalo again to see if there's anything we've been missing. But if no one's doing anything, that needs to change immediately.
i'm sorry for my speed this week was Something. and for ianto being such a downer...
I was researching to see if there was a way to stop it without fighting.
[Because that seemed more sensible, to him, than blindly facing it head-on.]
In Khalo and Wyver both, yeah. I wanted to understand what we were dealing with. What they were doing to it, if there might be a way to... I don't know, negate what they've done.
[Does he sound frustrated? He definitely is. He's spent a lot of time coming up with dead ends.]
There's just not that much written, and what there is... It just doesn't sound good. I'm not really sure where to go from here, Jim. I keep hoping for, I don't know. A breakthrough to happen or something. I think the best we can hope for is that someone figures out how to put it down, at this point.
Then you have to work towards what you think is the best solution, or support people who're doing just that. You can't hope for a breakthrough. You have to make one happen.
[ That's a general 'you', but it's fine if Ianto takes it as a personal 'you' as well. Still counts. They all have an individual responsibility to attack this problem head-on. Jim's where he's the most effective, so is everyone else, looks like. ]
Hey, I gotta go - I need to get a better look at this diagnostic.
( ooc; it's ok! i think this should get wrapped anyway since at this stage they're talking about something we've known the outcome of for a good while tho lol )
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I'm sorry, I don't mean to criticize. It just feels a little like. Big Brother is watching. No wonder people use them to gamble.
[Maybe the future isn't all that it sounds after all.]
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Fascinating, to borrow a word. Did old Earth humans really do things like refuse state-sanctioned medical care over similarly imaginary reasons? Who prioritizes getting drunk over housing, food, education, healthcare..? Culture is fuckin wild, man.
(It's so easy to get trashed just on your own credits. Jim knows way, way too well. He also knows well how easy it is to slip the system and become an alcoholic and beat the shit out of your stepkids or nephews with regularity.) ]
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Listen, I. Mentioned that I worked in defense, yeah? I know first hand how corrupt different branches of the government can become when they've got that much deciding power, that's all I mean. Maybe people are different in the future, but. I wouldn't think we've changed that much.
[Just look at what became of Torchwood One...]
no subject
Well. [ Hmmm. ]
The thing is, humanity was nearly extinct. Nuclear holocaust, the post-atomic horror. You talk about things that are a given about human nature, but humans had to start over. Our understanding of fundamental elements here are probably pretty different.
no subject
I. Shit, Jim. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. You know, imply anything. Or turn the conversation this way, for that matter.
I'm just trying to understand. Learn. I'm a researcher, I guess you could say digging is just something that I do.
[Does this small attempt at humor lighten the mood at all? Or redeem him for any judgments that might have been made during this conversation at all? God, he hopes so.]
no subject
[ Which is weird, and isolating. Jim's unique in that he's seen the worst his humanity has to offer, in the form of Starfleet corruption, but it was so shocking because it's so unlikely. He could have easily become bitter about it but he decided-- fuck you, he's going to work harder, drag more people into the light and out of that.
(Still, it's funny what gets a rise out of people. Booze, of all things.) ]
It's a shame. We're capable of a lot of good.
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Take this situation we're up against, for instance. The easiest way to see that the least amount of people are hurt is to take it down as fast as possible. But the dragon is technically an innocent in this as well, for all the damage it will be causing. That's why I had to make the post that I did, to try and help people understand. I'm not saying that it's wrong to want to save it. I'm just saying that it's not realistic. We don't have the time or the resources to find the answers, the cure, the ritual, or however else we might be able to stop it.
Believe me, I've looked.
[And boy is he tired. There's only so much individuals can do before running themselves into the ground here though, Jim. They're basically a guerrilla force here, up against what seems more and more like impossible odds.]
no subject
i'm sorry for my speed this week was Something. and for ianto being such a downer...
[Because that seemed more sensible, to him, than blindly facing it head-on.]
In Khalo and Wyver both, yeah. I wanted to understand what we were dealing with. What they were doing to it, if there might be a way to... I don't know, negate what they've done.
[Does he sound frustrated? He definitely is. He's spent a lot of time coming up with dead ends.]
There's just not that much written, and what there is... It just doesn't sound good. I'm not really sure where to go from here, Jim. I keep hoping for, I don't know. A breakthrough to happen or something. I think the best we can hope for is that someone figures out how to put it down, at this point.
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[ That's a general 'you', but it's fine if Ianto takes it as a personal 'you' as well. Still counts. They all have an individual responsibility to attack this problem head-on. Jim's where he's the most effective, so is everyone else, looks like. ]
Hey, I gotta go - I need to get a better look at this diagnostic.
( ooc; it's ok! i think this should get wrapped anyway since at this stage they're talking about something we've known the outcome of for a good while tho lol )